Axelrod E-mail

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Axelrod E-mail

Post by The Prez on Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 am

Has anyone else received the e-mail from the White House debunking health care? I don't know how I got it as I never submitted my e-mail address to anyone. So I think this might be slightly illegal... O well, you never know what those disclaimers say when you sign up for certain websites Sad On another note, the White House myth debunking page has asked all of us to submit myths are "friends" have been spreading. Word of advice, correct them, don't tell the White House, because that seriously sounds like the Thought Police from 1984, no offense to the White House.
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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by McSnuggles on Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:40 am

I didn't get the e-mail but it sounds like a fantastic idea. I mean people on FOX are talking about death panels and shit all the time and that stuff just isn't true. It's a good idea for the White House to try to educate the country a little.

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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by dohnage18 on Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:07 pm

"Educate" the country. It's the same thing as FOX, but not as crazy.

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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by The Prez on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:27 pm

I still don't want e-mails from the White House without knowing how they got my e-mail. And personally I want a neutral source telling me about healthcare liek FactCheck. And FOX needs to just shut up on those death panels, the part of the bill that was cited is removed.

Though I must complement FOX on one thing: covering the protestors, because whether you like them or not, this is a massive uprising of unprecedented numbers and it is major news, true they want to get attention, and reporting on them gives them that, but I hope you all realize that these aren't crackpot dumbshit hicks doing this, these are huge numbers of regular people, and not all of them are just conservative. For the record, I do not support the protestors as I believe protesting should not be in your face, it is okay that they are on the street protesting, but they should not be talking over the person who is talking (I am, as you probably have noticed after years of knowing me, am a politeness stickler)
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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by dohnage18 on Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:21 pm

You know, if this gets a bunch worse, we could be on course for a revolution. That would really be terrible, but it would kind of be interesting.

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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by McSnuggles on Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:41 pm

My internet crashed after typing a long thought out response but I don't feel like typing the whole thing again so this might not be quite as good.

This is not a massive uprising of unprecedented numbers. I've been to multiple protests all 500k+. Those were all bigger than this. Then there have been things like the progressive movement which was MUCH larger. This is a minority refusing to even quite down for a simple debate. And don't use polls to say it's a minority because there's a flaw in that poll. They ask "do you agree with Obama's stance on healthcare." Conservatives will obviously say no. However so will liberals like me. I want a single payer plan, not a public option, so I would say no. However if given the choice of public option or nothing, I choose public option. That's a large portion of the population in America. Combine that with the Conservatives and you see why it looks in polls like a minority wants reform.

These's people just yell, mostly without any real basis for their opinions, and refuse to listen to anyone else. Now let's look at some of their arguments and see why they are dumbshits. Not dumbshit hicks, but dumbshits.

1. Death panels. NO!

2. "We're losing our country." No, what happened is you "elected" a dumbass for President and the majority of Americans wanted to take the country in a different direction. Now you're complaining about reform when you supported preemptive war causing the needless deaths of thousands of American soldiers.

3. "The US will become a socialized country." No. Just no. First of all it's not even socialized. It's a public option, not single payer. Plus this is one thing. Not everything. It's not socialism.

4. "Obama is trying to take away our freedom." No, he wants to give everyone a public option. And OPTION. That's the right to choose what you want and just another option for all. That's MORE freedom, not less.

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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by J-Mads on Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:10 pm

There's nothing more confining and restricting than having choices.

I don't think the movement is huge, I think it appears huge because there aren't any other big stories in the news and because there are so few that really like the plan to counter them. But like the other Luke, I mildly like it, at least enough to support it over having no change at all. But that sort of support doesn't put people in the spotlight like the small and powerful anti-health conservatives.

Health care reform has been on the agenda of the executive branch for about 20 years, it makes sense that it'd be a nasty fight to get it done. Even if it sinks Obama's presidency and dooms him to a single term, I think they should push it through. Then, when it doesn't work, they can tweak it until it does. But without an opposing plan beyond vaguely yelling "tort reform!!" most moderates will be pushed into supporting the bill and it becomes the nation's best option. That's how I see it, at least.

You can't claim that our health care system doesn't need significant change and while I understand people saying we should wait until we have the right plan, we tried that for a long time and can't afford to delay much more. An evenly split Congress will never get this big of a bill accomplished, so unfortunately we must celebrate unitarian Democratic control for the moment.
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Re: Axelrod E-mail

Post by The Prez on Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:42 pm

As a resident of the midwest where many of these rallies are taking place I can tell you that it is not to be underestimated, though the tea parties were larger. Secondly, we are nowhere near revolution unless actual socialism appears, which WILL NOT occur. Thirdly, the Republicans want basically the same things as the Democrats, they just don't want to give the Democrats the credit. This is politics at its most corrupt. Again, Max and I agree that parties ruin American values for us all.

On a final note, I don't think any member of the forum actually believes any of those myths, so I feel it is useless to bring them up as we all realize that people only believe them because the majority of them fear socialism whenever it comes up because their deep psychological impulses find root in the Cold War.

Regardless of the outcome, the Democrats must be careful not to take advantage of their majority too much by including leftist legislation that does not appeal to the Independents. Independents and Seniors are the people scared the most about this situation as neither party is looking out for their interests. And don't start the crap argument that seniors support the healthcare plan when poll numbers show an overwhelming opposition to it.

The best thing the Republicans can do is duct tape Palin's mouth shut and admit the myths aren't in the bill, pass it on a bipartisan basis, before the Democrats get too pissed off and write the bill without them.

2010 Predictions: Democrats are toast in 2010 if the bill is not bipartisan, which I predict it will not be; however, since the Republicans will be essentially responsible for the bill not being bipartisan, the Republicans will not be able to hold such numbers. Obama will be a one term President, but so would McCain have been, I would be mildly shocked if Obama was President for 8 years it goes against all political trends across the world. Whether or not I will vote for Obama in 2012 will be decided later.

To sum up this all: I essentially agree almost entirely with both Lukes.
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